Comments on: The Simpsons, Titan’s football, and the Spirituality of boys and girls http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/ A discussion forum for all things youth ministry... Join in! Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:46:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: Lynn-nore http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-50 Lynn-nore Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:33:49 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-50 Anna, I'm standing cooking dinner and I can't get this blog question out of my head. Unfortunately, rather than generating answers, all I'm getting is more questions. Here's some of what is running around in my head -- I'm thinking if I share my questions, maybe collectively some answers will come. One thought -- Is it something the church is doing wrong that turns this age group away or is it something that other organizations are doing well that attracts them? I can't help but think about all of the life-changing decisions that take place at that same time of life -- everything from relationships, to careers, to establishing a place of your own, to having children -- all of that happens between 18-35. So, the answer can't be that this age group is distracted and "too busy" -- it's gotta be more than that. It seems its actually a question of what voices that age group allows to influence their decisions. If they are absent from the church, than presumably they are absent from the influence of the church as well. No wonder our society is where it is. OK-- so going back to the questions -- what happens in life prior to age 18 that would encourage young adults to believe they should skip church for a while. Jody commented recently on the notion that people attend church as children, leave after they have "joined" the church as adults and return to raise their kids to the same point. But, that doesn't fully answer the question, because this issue is true across a variety of denominations and not all include the same thinking in terms of how to move teens through a process toward commitment to the church/Christ. Therefore, the answer must be broader. It must be that somehow that age group finds the church irrelevent in some way to the decisions/issues of their life, otherwise, you would think they'd be there. So, the closest I'm getting to an answer is that church should not be directed for one particular age group -- but, like education, should be fitted to every specific age group. But I have NO IDEA what this looks like. I am pretty certain it does not mean conforming our appearance as the emerging church has attempted... it has to go deeper than that. Sorry if I'm reviewing the basics or restating the obvious, I'm just mentally working through the subject. Gotta run -- my mac n cheese sauce is separating! Anna, I’m standing cooking dinner and I can’t get this blog question out of my head. Unfortunately, rather than generating answers, all I’m getting is more questions. Here’s some of what is running around in my head — I’m thinking if I share my questions, maybe collectively some answers will come.

One thought — Is it something the church is doing wrong that turns this age group away or is it something that other organizations are doing well that attracts them? I can’t help but think about all of the life-changing decisions that take place at that same time of life — everything from relationships, to careers, to establishing a place of your own, to having children — all of that happens between 18-35. So, the answer can’t be that this age group is distracted and “too busy” — it’s gotta be more than that. It seems its actually a question of what voices that age group allows to influence their decisions. If they are absent from the church, than presumably they are absent from the influence of the church as well. No wonder our society is where it is.

OK– so going back to the questions — what happens in life prior to age 18 that would encourage young adults to believe they should skip church for a while. Jody commented recently on the notion that people attend church as children, leave after they have “joined” the church as adults and return to raise their kids to the same point. But, that doesn’t fully answer the question, because this issue is true across a variety of denominations and not all include the same thinking in terms of how to move teens through a process toward commitment to the church/Christ. Therefore, the answer must be broader. It must be that somehow that age group finds the church irrelevent in some way to the decisions/issues of their life, otherwise, you would think they’d be there.

So, the closest I’m getting to an answer is that church should not be directed for one particular age group — but, like education, should be fitted to every specific age group. But I have NO IDEA what this looks like. I am pretty certain it does not mean conforming our appearance as the emerging church has attempted… it has to go deeper than that.

Sorry if I’m reviewing the basics or restating the obvious, I’m just mentally working through the subject.

Gotta run — my mac n cheese sauce is separating!

]]> By: Anna http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-48 Anna Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:16:14 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-48 Lynn-nore, I think this is true to a point, the deal about fathers and mothers, but what about the overall absence of young people in the church? We're missing both sexes in that 18-35 range... One book jody was reading called Why Men Hate Church, suggested that in some ways the church seemed to be geared towards a late-middle aged, mostly empty-nester woman (say 55 and up). Speaking of the atmosphere in church versus a sports bar, some of the emotions and such expressed in the sports bar reminded me of goings on in my more charismatic upbringing, but those churches don't have any higher percentage of men than others, so it's not a surface thing... I don't have the answer here, I'm just throwing out more thoughts... (and yes, I've read Reviving Ophelia) Lynn-nore, I think this is true to a point, the deal about fathers and mothers, but what about the overall absence of young people in the church? We’re missing both sexes in that 18-35 range… One book jody was reading called Why Men Hate Church, suggested that in some ways the church seemed to be geared towards a late-middle aged, mostly empty-nester woman (say 55 and up).

Speaking of the atmosphere in church versus a sports bar, some of the emotions and such expressed in the sports bar reminded me of goings on in my more charismatic upbringing, but those churches don’t have any higher percentage of men than others, so it’s not a surface thing…

I don’t have the answer here, I’m just throwing out more thoughts… (and yes, I’ve read Reviving Ophelia)

]]> By: Lynn-nore http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-47 Lynn-nore Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:09:34 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-47 Great question, Anna! And I've only begun to process this, so here's just an initial thought/observation. The relationship between boys and their fathers must affect their spirituality. If the men/fathers are MIA on Sunday mornings, what does that say about the example they are in the home toward their teenage sons? If teenage girls follow the example of their church-going mothers and teenage boys their fathers, then the difference in their spirituality would be as different as the atmosphere at church versus the sports bar. I would assume that boys in youth groups are fighting an uphill battle at home if they become passionate and serious about their faith in an environment where their primary male role model essentially considers church a waste of time. In contrast, church-going mothers would be encouraging and supportive of the spiritual growth of their daughters, but might not have a clue about the real-world experiences in which these girls are attempting to apply their faith. So, that's are my first thoughts -- great question! Also, have you read the book Reviving Ophelia? It addresses mostly pre-tween to tween girls and the issues they face as they phase from childhood into adolescence and how they define themselves in terms of gender identity -- feminity etc. It's all case study stories, so it's a fun and quick read. I found it very applicaple when I was working with a group of young middle school girls. It would be a good read for ministry at St. Francis keeping in mind the group of young girls that are growing up among us. Great question, Anna! And I’ve only begun to process this, so here’s just an initial thought/observation. The relationship between boys and their fathers must affect their spirituality. If the men/fathers are MIA on Sunday mornings, what does that say about the example they are in the home toward their teenage sons? If teenage girls follow the example of their church-going mothers and teenage boys their fathers, then the difference in their spirituality would be as different as the atmosphere at church versus the sports bar. I would assume that boys in youth groups are fighting an uphill battle at home if they become passionate and serious about their faith in an environment where their primary male role model essentially considers church a waste of time. In contrast, church-going mothers would be encouraging and supportive of the spiritual growth of their daughters, but might not have a clue about the real-world experiences in which these girls are attempting to apply their faith.

So, that’s are my first thoughts — great question! Also, have you read the book Reviving Ophelia? It addresses mostly pre-tween to tween girls and the issues they face as they phase from childhood into adolescence and how they define themselves in terms of gender identity — feminity etc. It’s all case study stories, so it’s a fun and quick read. I found it very applicaple when I was working with a group of young middle school girls. It would be a good read for ministry at St. Francis keeping in mind the group of young girls that are growing up among us.

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