Comments for ymCafe http://ymcafe.org A discussion forum for all things youth ministry... Join in! Sat, 17 May 2008 15:48:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU Comment on Sermon Listening for Transformation by Anna http://ymcafe.org/2008/02/06/getting-something-out-of-boring-sermons/#comment-406 Anna Wed, 06 Feb 2008 22:13:35 +0000 http://ymcafe.wordpress.com/?p=98#comment-406 Jason, I love this! I sometimes find my mind wandering during sermons, despite the fact that I'm listening to my husband's, and in my opinion, they tend to be quite excellent. I'm going to try this out tonight :-) Jason, I love this! I sometimes find my mind wandering during sermons, despite the fact that I’m listening to my husband’s, and in my opinion, they tend to be quite excellent. I’m going to try this out tonight :-)

]]> Comment on Fine Tuning by Jason http://ymcafe.org/2008/01/19/fine-tuning/#comment-402 Jason Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:29:33 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2008/01/19/fine-tuning/#comment-402 'Appreciation' is a rich concept. It has to do with color, taste, sound, subtlety, nuance--it's a receptivity born of years of reception and wonder. Wouldn't it be amazing to have such an appreciation of Scripture that we savored it like a connoisseur savors wine, swirling it, sniffing it, sipping it, enjoying being in its presence and engaging its subtlety and nuance? It makes me wonder what kind of finely-tuned teachers and spiritual directors we would become if we did so. "How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth!" -Psalm 119:103 ‘Appreciation’ is a rich concept. It has to do with color, taste, sound, subtlety, nuance–it’s a receptivity born of years of reception and wonder. Wouldn’t it be amazing to have such an appreciation of Scripture that we savored it like a connoisseur savors wine, swirling it, sniffing it, sipping it, enjoying being in its presence and engaging its subtlety and nuance? It makes me wonder what kind of finely-tuned teachers and spiritual directors we would become if we did so.

“How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth!”
-Psalm 119:103

]]> Comment on The Cost of Non-Discipleship by Matt http://ymcafe.org/2007/08/15/the-cost-of-non-discipleship/#comment-190 Matt Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:14:40 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/08/15/the-cost-of-non-discipleship/#comment-190 Master Plan of Evangelism and Discipleship - Robert E. Coleman Training of the Twelve - Alexander Bruce Master Plan of Evangelism and Discipleship - Robert E. Coleman

Training of the Twelve - Alexander Bruce

]]> Comment on dangerous wonder by laura traux http://ymcafe.org/peruse/dangerouswonder/#comment-51 laura traux Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:36:25 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/what-were-reading/dangerouswonder/#comment-51 In response to Suzanne - the crash helment quote is a good one. It comes from Anne Dillard's book, "Teaching a Stone to Talk." That book is definitely worth a read at least once a year. In response to Suzanne - the crash helment quote is a good one. It comes from Anne Dillard’s book, “Teaching a Stone to Talk.” That book is definitely worth a read at least once a year.

]]> Comment on The Simpsons, Titan’s football, and the Spirituality of boys and girls by Lynn-nore http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-50 Lynn-nore Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:33:49 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-50 Anna, I'm standing cooking dinner and I can't get this blog question out of my head. Unfortunately, rather than generating answers, all I'm getting is more questions. Here's some of what is running around in my head -- I'm thinking if I share my questions, maybe collectively some answers will come. One thought -- Is it something the church is doing wrong that turns this age group away or is it something that other organizations are doing well that attracts them? I can't help but think about all of the life-changing decisions that take place at that same time of life -- everything from relationships, to careers, to establishing a place of your own, to having children -- all of that happens between 18-35. So, the answer can't be that this age group is distracted and "too busy" -- it's gotta be more than that. It seems its actually a question of what voices that age group allows to influence their decisions. If they are absent from the church, than presumably they are absent from the influence of the church as well. No wonder our society is where it is. OK-- so going back to the questions -- what happens in life prior to age 18 that would encourage young adults to believe they should skip church for a while. Jody commented recently on the notion that people attend church as children, leave after they have "joined" the church as adults and return to raise their kids to the same point. But, that doesn't fully answer the question, because this issue is true across a variety of denominations and not all include the same thinking in terms of how to move teens through a process toward commitment to the church/Christ. Therefore, the answer must be broader. It must be that somehow that age group finds the church irrelevent in some way to the decisions/issues of their life, otherwise, you would think they'd be there. So, the closest I'm getting to an answer is that church should not be directed for one particular age group -- but, like education, should be fitted to every specific age group. But I have NO IDEA what this looks like. I am pretty certain it does not mean conforming our appearance as the emerging church has attempted... it has to go deeper than that. Sorry if I'm reviewing the basics or restating the obvious, I'm just mentally working through the subject. Gotta run -- my mac n cheese sauce is separating! Anna, I’m standing cooking dinner and I can’t get this blog question out of my head. Unfortunately, rather than generating answers, all I’m getting is more questions. Here’s some of what is running around in my head — I’m thinking if I share my questions, maybe collectively some answers will come.

One thought — Is it something the church is doing wrong that turns this age group away or is it something that other organizations are doing well that attracts them? I can’t help but think about all of the life-changing decisions that take place at that same time of life — everything from relationships, to careers, to establishing a place of your own, to having children — all of that happens between 18-35. So, the answer can’t be that this age group is distracted and “too busy” — it’s gotta be more than that. It seems its actually a question of what voices that age group allows to influence their decisions. If they are absent from the church, than presumably they are absent from the influence of the church as well. No wonder our society is where it is.

OK– so going back to the questions — what happens in life prior to age 18 that would encourage young adults to believe they should skip church for a while. Jody commented recently on the notion that people attend church as children, leave after they have “joined” the church as adults and return to raise their kids to the same point. But, that doesn’t fully answer the question, because this issue is true across a variety of denominations and not all include the same thinking in terms of how to move teens through a process toward commitment to the church/Christ. Therefore, the answer must be broader. It must be that somehow that age group finds the church irrelevent in some way to the decisions/issues of their life, otherwise, you would think they’d be there.

So, the closest I’m getting to an answer is that church should not be directed for one particular age group — but, like education, should be fitted to every specific age group. But I have NO IDEA what this looks like. I am pretty certain it does not mean conforming our appearance as the emerging church has attempted… it has to go deeper than that.

Sorry if I’m reviewing the basics or restating the obvious, I’m just mentally working through the subject.

Gotta run — my mac n cheese sauce is separating!

]]> Comment on The Simpsons, Titan’s football, and the Spirituality of boys and girls by Anna http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-48 Anna Mon, 17 Sep 2007 21:16:14 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-48 Lynn-nore, I think this is true to a point, the deal about fathers and mothers, but what about the overall absence of young people in the church? We're missing both sexes in that 18-35 range... One book jody was reading called Why Men Hate Church, suggested that in some ways the church seemed to be geared towards a late-middle aged, mostly empty-nester woman (say 55 and up). Speaking of the atmosphere in church versus a sports bar, some of the emotions and such expressed in the sports bar reminded me of goings on in my more charismatic upbringing, but those churches don't have any higher percentage of men than others, so it's not a surface thing... I don't have the answer here, I'm just throwing out more thoughts... (and yes, I've read Reviving Ophelia) Lynn-nore, I think this is true to a point, the deal about fathers and mothers, but what about the overall absence of young people in the church? We’re missing both sexes in that 18-35 range… One book jody was reading called Why Men Hate Church, suggested that in some ways the church seemed to be geared towards a late-middle aged, mostly empty-nester woman (say 55 and up).

Speaking of the atmosphere in church versus a sports bar, some of the emotions and such expressed in the sports bar reminded me of goings on in my more charismatic upbringing, but those churches don’t have any higher percentage of men than others, so it’s not a surface thing…

I don’t have the answer here, I’m just throwing out more thoughts… (and yes, I’ve read Reviving Ophelia)

]]> Comment on The Simpsons, Titan’s football, and the Spirituality of boys and girls by Lynn-nore http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-47 Lynn-nore Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:09:34 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/09/17/spirituality-of-girls-and-boys-and-titans-football/#comment-47 Great question, Anna! And I've only begun to process this, so here's just an initial thought/observation. The relationship between boys and their fathers must affect their spirituality. If the men/fathers are MIA on Sunday mornings, what does that say about the example they are in the home toward their teenage sons? If teenage girls follow the example of their church-going mothers and teenage boys their fathers, then the difference in their spirituality would be as different as the atmosphere at church versus the sports bar. I would assume that boys in youth groups are fighting an uphill battle at home if they become passionate and serious about their faith in an environment where their primary male role model essentially considers church a waste of time. In contrast, church-going mothers would be encouraging and supportive of the spiritual growth of their daughters, but might not have a clue about the real-world experiences in which these girls are attempting to apply their faith. So, that's are my first thoughts -- great question! Also, have you read the book Reviving Ophelia? It addresses mostly pre-tween to tween girls and the issues they face as they phase from childhood into adolescence and how they define themselves in terms of gender identity -- feminity etc. It's all case study stories, so it's a fun and quick read. I found it very applicaple when I was working with a group of young middle school girls. It would be a good read for ministry at St. Francis keeping in mind the group of young girls that are growing up among us. Great question, Anna! And I’ve only begun to process this, so here’s just an initial thought/observation. The relationship between boys and their fathers must affect their spirituality. If the men/fathers are MIA on Sunday mornings, what does that say about the example they are in the home toward their teenage sons? If teenage girls follow the example of their church-going mothers and teenage boys their fathers, then the difference in their spirituality would be as different as the atmosphere at church versus the sports bar. I would assume that boys in youth groups are fighting an uphill battle at home if they become passionate and serious about their faith in an environment where their primary male role model essentially considers church a waste of time. In contrast, church-going mothers would be encouraging and supportive of the spiritual growth of their daughters, but might not have a clue about the real-world experiences in which these girls are attempting to apply their faith.

So, that’s are my first thoughts — great question! Also, have you read the book Reviving Ophelia? It addresses mostly pre-tween to tween girls and the issues they face as they phase from childhood into adolescence and how they define themselves in terms of gender identity — feminity etc. It’s all case study stories, so it’s a fun and quick read. I found it very applicaple when I was working with a group of young middle school girls. It would be a good read for ministry at St. Francis keeping in mind the group of young girls that are growing up among us.

]]> Comment on The Cost of Non-Discipleship by Suz Cate http://ymcafe.org/2007/08/15/the-cost-of-non-discipleship/#comment-39 Suz Cate Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:31:32 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/08/15/the-cost-of-non-discipleship/#comment-39 But having harrumphed a bit, Peter is exactly right--the best manual for discipleship is right there in the back of the Holy Bible. Jesus is certainly the exemplar, but Paul aint too shabby either. Then old St. James will whip your butt into shape; St. Peter will knock you over the head with love and kindness, and John brings it home with the vision of the New Creation! If you'll settle for mentoring as a form of discipleship, there are some good books out there--I'll have to hunt up those references later, after I've given my employer a fair share of my attention. But having harrumphed a bit, Peter is exactly right–the best manual for discipleship is right there in the back of the Holy Bible. Jesus is certainly the exemplar, but Paul aint too shabby either. Then old St. James will whip your butt into shape; St. Peter will knock you over the head with love and kindness, and John brings it home with the vision of the New Creation!

If you’ll settle for mentoring as a form of discipleship, there are some good books out there–I’ll have to hunt up those references later, after I’ve given my employer a fair share of my attention.

]]> Comment on Welcome! by Suz Cate http://ymcafe.org/2007/07/19/hello-world/#comment-38 Suz Cate Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:22:40 +0000 #comment-38 Anna, I wanted to congratulate Peter on his escape from Arkansas, but I couldn't really find a place for that to fit.... Anna,

I wanted to congratulate Peter on his escape from Arkansas, but I couldn’t really find a place for that to fit….

]]> Comment on The Cost of Non-Discipleship by Suz Cate http://ymcafe.org/2007/08/15/the-cost-of-non-discipleship/#comment-37 Suz Cate Fri, 31 Aug 2007 15:17:56 +0000 http://ymcafe.org/2007/08/15/the-cost-of-non-discipleship/#comment-37 Interesting. I would say that the false gospel is as likely to be the neutered gospel of the I'm OK, You're OK Jesus that can be derived from reading only those bits of the Bible that we like. I hate to see the Old Testament charactirized as a set of rules, when it is as much a love story as it is a Hoyle's for the game of life. Interesting. I would say that the false gospel is as likely to be the neutered gospel of the I’m OK, You’re OK Jesus that can be derived from reading only those bits of the Bible that we like. I hate to see the Old Testament charactirized as a set of rules, when it is as much a love story as it is a Hoyle’s for the game of life.

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